Is it gameplay to kill gameplay?
Do we need to be strategic about killing gameplay?
Do we need to shoot gameplay to kill it?
Do we need to stealth behind gameplay and knock it unconscious?
Do we need to send our most powerful designers against it?
How long does it take to kill gameplay?
Does gameplay fight back?
Is some gameplay harder to kill?
Does gameplay respawn?
Do we need to kill gameplay forever?
Can we take a break from killing gameplay?
Can we pause killing gameplay?
Can we quit killing gameplay?
How many times have we killed gameplay?
How much gameplay have we killed?
Why do we kill gameplay?
Is there a reward for killing gameplay?
Have we rescued something in our lives from the clutches of gameplay?
Is it pleasurable to kill gameplay?
Do we have a choice to kill gameplay or not?
Is it meaningful to choose to kill gameplay?
Is it gameplay to kill gameplay?

ah gimmick is such a good touchstone!
i went back to play ooo and i felt such a lack of play as compared to your description - every screen (in ooo, not in gimmick) has a very clear cut solution, one thing that you're meant to be doing, but in gimmick the screens (as i remember them) feel much more chaotic, like there are multiple ways to enjoy a room... but maybe im on the wrong track, i think youve said other things that are (probably?) more important:

"they let the human take a backseat to the thing the human discovered"
this is really big, i have been trying to put my finger on this for a while... ive talked with people about how they do make games in this way, they discover something, and it is definitely still a human act to show another person something that you discovered and that you like! but it also feels categorically different in a way i cant put my finger on. or i havent been able to put my finger on. maybe this is a useful thing to hold on to.

"the gameplay a person chooses to include in their game reveals stuff about them"
and then a systematic approach to choosing means that we no longer get to see the human's choices as much or as clearly, instead we see what the system chose -- which the human did decide to serve  but ive complained about proc gen enough already elsewhere

i haven't played this but reading your description makes me feel like i've already played it.... maybe i'm being unfair and i should try it

i can't speak about the real game, but the version of the game i'm imagining in my head is kind of like taking a class about a game mechanic, the instructor lectures at you for a bit (tutorial) then has you do assignments that test your knowledge and reveal additional subtleties you might not have caught onto during the lecture. it's not a bad format but you have to feel motivated to study the game mechanic or you'll probably be bored

there are lots of gameplay-forward games i like that don't feel like this. a random example is "gimmick!" for the famicom. each level is a series of hard platforming challenges, and there's a complex mechanic where you can throw stars and ride on them, but they aren't intertwined in a sort of straightforward, instructional way. learning the deep nuances of the star mechanic is only required to reach the "true ending" and you have to learn it on your own in an unguided manner. the challenges don't feel like they are meant to impart knowledge about the systems, they mostly just present you with various weird guys or obstacles in a world and let you jump around and throw stars at them. there are clever mechanics puzzles in the game, but being surprised by a clever mechanics puzzle is not the focus, it's just a small part of a rich and beautiful world. the high difficulty puts a lot of people off from the game but people tend to recognize that it's amazing even if it's too hard for them. you aren't just playing for the fun platform action or to learn the mechanics and stages but to feel the human soul underpinning the work.

it's not that games like my imaginary version of ooo don't have a human soul underpnning the work but i think they let the human take a backseat to the thing the human discovered, the mechanic with interesting consequences and puzzle opportunities.

the gameplay a person chooses to include in their game reveals stuff about them.... maybe that's why i don't usually care for the approach of like, systematically exploring every consequence of a mechanic, because it flattens out the sense of personality. the person's fixations and idiosyncrasies are less apparent when the goal is to cover every angle on the thing

i don't know if "predictable" vs. "unpredictable" gameplay is what matters to me, i want a clashing of souls....

i do have some! i will privately msg you for details. <3

every deck came with a little secret written in the box, you can share your secret here if desired? or you can keep it to yourself!
love, droqen

If you have any decks left after the event, I'd love to get one (and happy to pay the shipping).

I've never done a tarot reading, only gotten one from a friend once; so I talked to them a little about how they started.
They said:

Quoteone source is not enough to understand ,because personal interpretation is the most important ig
...
so it's a trial and error, intuition and understanding are the only way to learn

I think for me, given that, and seeing the questions you already have in your lookup tool, it would be the most useful to have something that would 'hold my hand', at least for the first reading - maybe some series of prompts or questions that could give me the courage or momentum, and a little bit of literacy, to start forming my own interpretations

Quote from: droqen on Jun 16, 2025, 04:28 PMi guess what i mean to say by saying that is how the hell do i write a guidebook when i am like 75% on the cards instead of 100%??? it's a necessity, i think i need to figure out a process by which i'll write the guide book rather than trying to figure out what i should write.


intermediary steps.

I think I've struggled with this or something similar a lot writing my term papers this year loll
But also just with any creative work. With these papers, I've been wondering how to explain some phenomena that I'm not sure I have the ability, or all the information, to interpret to the point that I have a conclusion. In general I hit a lot of snags in the creative process by trying to tie up every loose end along the way before reaching the conclusion, and it tends to mean nothing is ever finished..

So just thinking about personal interpretation, and what helps me in this situation...
What are you worried will result from getting to the end (writing the guidebook) before working out all the details of the cards?
If you just go ahead and write it, or try to write something, could that reveal if you're really missing that 25%?

It might turn out you never needed it. or, asking yourself what you need to know to use the deck could help you figure out what's missing.
Also I was thinking, the art of the cards is obviously part of the interpretive space - so the way you're reading the ones you aren't satisfied with isn't necessarily the way someone else will. something interesting can come out of them, even if your visual reading of them doesn't match what they're "supposed" to say.. maybe? I might not know enough about the tradition of tarot and how they're made to say

anywho. Good luck! I'm really interested to see the full deck.

there are 29 steam reviews currently and i've replied to them all, i'm gathering my replies here in one place (sort of).

1. THE FIRST 18 REVIEWS
- https://kinopio.club/the-end-of-gameplay---every-steam-review-znZp9UO5PoyukxAu_E8vK

2. TELEPHONE AMBROSIA SOUND'S REVIEW
- https://kinopio.club/responding-to-telephone-sound-MfqgDsHCakownexswTI2J
- https://youtu.be/UoF_R-k3fxo

3. THE REMAINING, UH, 10 REVIEWS?
these are linked in the individual steam reviews, it's pretty awful! i can hunt down the links but im lazy.
browse em yourself here for now (linked in developer responses from me)
- https://store.steampowered.com/app/3120040/The_End_of_Gameplay/#app_reviews_hash

if you post questions i'll do my best to answer them but you can feel free to just express thoughts (in this thread, in new threads, whatever) too.

hi, i just thought it would be nice to have an actual centralized public-ish place to say things about the game? there is also an 'individual levels' subforum if you want to talk about a singular level, i've found that to be a better way to talk about the game sometimes.